BizTech BizTech Podcasts

74. Cloud: What are the top three ways Kubernetes can help your customers? With Chad Mowery

June 21, 2023

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Listen in today as we talk to Chad Mowery, Cloud Solution Architect at Telarus. Chad talks about some cutting-edge cloud services such as Kubernetes and a few ways it can help your customers modernize in cloud. You’ll find a few helpful tips, some basics around containers, and great conversation starters to open this door with your customers.

Josh Lupresto (00:00):
Welcome to the podcast that is designed to fuel your success in selling technology solutions. I’m your host, Josh Lupresto, SVP of sales engineering at Telarus. And this is Next Level BizTech, everybody. Welcome back. We are kicking off a new cloud track, and we’re gonna get nerdy on you for a minute, but that’s okay cuz we’re gonna try to make it fun. The title of this week’s track is what are the top three Ways Kubernetes can Help your Customers? And if you have no idea what Kubernetes is, that’s okay. We brought the smart guy on today, Mr. Chad Mowery, cloud solution architect at Telarus to help us break it down. Chad, welcome on, man.

Chad Mowery (02:16):
Thanks, Josh. The pleasure is mine. Thanks so much for the invitation.

Josh Lupresto (02:20):
So, so Chad, before we get in and start talking about Kubernetes and containers and advanced cloud and all kinds of good stuff I want everybody to get to know you just a little bit. This is kind of my favorite part of the show is where we get to hear everybody’s journey. Where did you come from? What did you do? Have you always been into tech? Did you start out you know, scrubbing concrete and cleaning floors? And then wanna get into this? Or give us your journey, man, how’d you get here?

Chad Mowery (02:47):
Wow, I don’t know that we have time. Actually, I, I also wanted to back up and, and you, you mentioned at the beginning there that we were gonna get nerdy. So I I sometimes that’s a compliment. Sometimes not so much. I’m pro I I choose to take it as a compliment though. My journey started. Yeah, I think cleaning bathrooms maybe, maybe maybe I should go back. So first, first computer I ever had was right out of high school, windows 95. So I’ve, I’ve loved technology computers ever since then. I remember as a teenager working for my uncles and they, they made jokes about being me being a car salesman. And it was funny because I, I would’ve been considered an introvert at the time, right? As a, as a teenager. I, I guess I, I probably really wasn’t exactly, I don’t know if closet extrovert is a real thing, but I don’t know.

Chad Mowery (03:50):
It just just changed over time. I, it was probably eight years from when, and I distinctly remember that joke for some reason. It was probably eight years between when they made that joke and, and any, and, and later. And there I was working for them in their small autocare business as their service manager, service advisor. You know, I was handling all the, the customer experience, all the scheduling, you know, all the, all the selling of services et cetera. Also happened to be doing the it, I mean, it was a small shop, so they had one, one computer, and the database was like super tiny. But, you know, that’s, that’s kind of where it started. Actually backing up a little bit I guess to take a page out of Stein’s book. I, I actually went to Bible college.

Chad Mowery (04:38):
So before I, I, I worked for my uncles just doing cleaning bathrooms for years while I was, while, while I was a teenager and then, and then going to college, and then went full-time after that. And, and before I went full-time for them as a service advisor, I had started going back to school after Bible college for my associate’s degree in network administration. Because I had loved you know, as I mentioned earlier, I loved computers and technology, and so I wanted to, to do something there, I think. But working for them as a, as a service advisor and working with people, I realized that I, I just, I like working with people, right? And I didn’t want to sit in front of a computer eight hours a day, or 10 hours or 12 hours or whatever, right? Doing code or anything like that.

Chad Mowery (05:20):
But I figured I’d had to, you know, to graduate and start, you know, at the bottom right in the back office probably, or basic IT or something. But after graduating, I, I did have some difficulty finding jobs and rather lived in a rather rural area. So I worked for my uncles for a while. But eventually I, I stumbled into a job in IT, sales Solutions consulting. It was a, it was a company called Innate U Managed Hosting. That was back in 2007, probably, probably should have left that out since I like to pretend that I’m much younger than, than I really am. But 2007. And, and I’ve been, you know, in this space ever since, I guess it, it, you know, it’s varied kind of a lot, but it’s also same. I, I guess I view it as being at the intersection between technology and, and business, right? So, mm-hmm. started out direct sales solutions consultant, was the title there moved into helping build kind of an inside sales and service customer service organization with a, with a, a big emphasis on technical acumen. From there moved into solutions engineering. And you know, eventually to my role here at Telarus as the cloud solutions architect,

Josh Lupresto (06:38):
Love it. There’s, there, I think we can say there’s a reoccurring theme now between religion and technology that we seem to pull people over from. So e either way third one, we’ll say it’s a trend of an investigative, but for now we’ll take it. So love, I’ve never,

Chad Mowery (06:52):
I’ve, I’ve, I’ve gotta talk to Jason sometimes. I’ve never really talked to him in depth. Like, you know, what happens in bible college stays in bible college. I, I think that, no, you know what? I think I made that up. I think

Josh Lupresto (07:01):
It’s the opposite. . Yeah. Love it. Love it. So, so, so talk to us, right? Your, your role is solution architect for cloud. And so a lot of folks might know they’re regional engineer, but maybe they don’t know some of the solution architects. So breakdown for us, for any partners that are listening to, to this, what’s the focus of your role?

Chad Mowery (07:23):
So, Josh, a a theme, a theme for me lately, I think is, is a reminder of the why, right? Ask the why. So I want to answer that by saying that the simplest why for my role at Telarus is really to help partners find and close more business. That’s the simplest, I mean, that, that extends to multiple facets, right? Whether that’s, you know, helping with some training at you know, an Ascend event, you know, some, one of the events that Telarus puts on, whether that’s an individual partner set of meetings or trainings you know, it’s varied, right? But, but at the end of the day, it comes down to, you know, the, the, the biggest focus is helping in an individual opportunity or helping a customer find opportunities and, or, sorry, not a customer, but a partner. Mm-Hmm. , find opportunities, ask questions, figure out what questions to ask. And, you know, moving to help them close more business. And obviously my, my focus, of course is on the, the cloud vertical specifically, right? So that’s my swim lane, if you will.

Josh Lupresto (08:35):
Beautiful, too. And, and, and I think, you know, obviously we tout certifications and, and, you know, so many of these conversations that were brought into, people don’t, people don’t know you, right? And, and in some cases, right, when the partners bring us in, the customers don’t, don’t know any of us. So, so the certifications we have to flex on those for a second. There’s a couple big ones that you got. You wanna let everybody know just what those are?

Chad Mowery (08:57):
Sure. So I guess, I guess the main one is the , wait, now I’m blanking. Josh.

Josh Lupresto (09:04):
Aws, baby aws.

Chad Mowery (09:05):
What’s, yeah, no, I know, but what they call it solutions architect, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Associates, solutions, architect, associate. Also the security, now that one’s currently expired, I need to renew that. I’ve, I’ve had the, the solutions architect associate certification two different times. Now, of course, the, the base cloud one that they call Cloud practitioner.

Chad Mowery (09:28):
Yeah. And the value in that is that I, I think it helps people understand that we un we get what the customers are going through. We understand the pieces and the moving parts of the puzzle, so we can, we can help ’em figure out what’s broken or, or what needs to come next. So, love some of those huge certifications. That’s awesome. Let’s talk about changes. I wanna talk about out there in the marketplace, right? If we look at what we used to do years ago, let’s talk, actually, hang on, I gotta, we, we gotta pop this on here. I think that picked it up. Let me re-ask that. Like I had a, all right, let’s re-ask that. Okay, so let’s talk about let’s talk about some changes here. You know, if we flashback five, 10 years ago, we were not having cloud infrastructure conversations. People had equipment, they were putting gear in data centers, and that was it. Infrastructure as a service was not as prevalent as it was now, so, so let’s talk about modernizing cloud infrastructure here. So, so give us just a, I know this is a very modern talk track with Kubernetes and containers, but maybe just walk us through a, a, a quick couple minute evolution of why are we talking about modernizing and Kubernetes and, and the next step in infrastructure?

Chad Mowery (11:01):
Oh, you said quick, huh? . So when I started working for, INETU managed hosting, it was, which probably nobody has ever heard of, I should spell that. I N E T U. And of course it’s, it’s gone. It doesn’t exist anymore. It was, you know, a acquired, et cetera. But we did dedicated servers. That was the primary thing that we were selling. So back in the day, you did dedicated servers, and, and people would do, you know, you could put a bunch of applications on dedicated server if you wanted to, a bunch of websites, whatever you wanted to do. But if you put a bunch of websites on there, then they have the ability to impact each other. It’s on the same operating system. So any issues with that brings the whole thing down. All the websites, all the applications, et cetera, et cetera.

Chad Mowery (11:41):
The other challenge with a dedicated server approach was, or, or maybe I shouldn’t say the other challenge. So what happened then with, a lot of times people would separate, right? So they put a physical server or multiple for, for high availability for each application. And the problem there is, of course, you get a lot of physical servers, and you’ve gotta build each application, if you will, if that’s what you’re doing for peak load, right? You’ve gotta be able to handle peak. So you might need multiple servers. And then of course, most of the time you, you don’t have peak load, so you’re way over billing. You have all this CPU and memory sitting around. And not only do you have that per application, because you built for peak load, you have a whole bunch of applications. And if they’ve separated them out, now we’re starting to talk all kinds of extra cpu, extra compute.

Chad Mowery (12:28):
That’s just, it’s, it’s just unutilized. So it’s, that’s not efficient. So hence virtualization, you know, becomes a, a big thing again. And, and, you know, and, and, and goes mainstream, obviously VMware is the big name out there in this space that most people are familiar with. And what that allows you to do is take that same hardware and put a bunch of servers on top of it. So, so virtualization is all about trying to efficiently use your hardware better, right? You can still, you put a bunch of you know, low utilization VMs on a single piece of hardware, ideally not a single piece, you know, multiple for, again, for availability for hardware top, you know, failure tolerance. But you can put a bunch of servers on what you would’ve, you know, used to only put a single application on. And then you still have that separation between each of those servers or, or virtual machines because they’re, they’re living inside of each of their own operating system environments.

Chad Mowery (13:26):
So, you know, that was the next iteration if you will. And that’s very common. Most, most businesses are, are virtualized heavily these days. Now containers or containerization, of course, dockers a big name in the space. Kubernetes, as you, as you have mentioned, these are probably terms that people are here floating around out there. It’s really kinda like the next step, because what that does is it allows you to put an application, multiple applications. You can still separate them inside of what’s called a container, which is really a, a way to run a set of commands and instructions inside of an operating system. So you put multiple containers now inside of an operating system. So if I had a, if I had a whiteboard here, we could, we would draw a physical server on top of that, we’d have virtualization and a VM in there.

Chad Mowery (14:12):
Then inside of that vm, you can have containers potentially, right? So containers go inside of an operating system, and you can have multiple containers, gives you the ability to have separation between your applications. So there’s, you’re limiting, you know, some of the problems that one application can cause, another one that, you know, that’s the benefit of that separation. But then you’re also taking advantage of, again, the efficiency of the underlying infrastructure, hardware, resources because now you have a bunch of applications, again, inside of one operating system. So you, what you’re doing with containers over virtual machines, the benefit of containerization over virtual machines is mostly about the ability to only have one operating system that hosts multiple containers and still has some separation. A downside of that, a lot of times people don’t realize this, is that you do have to have the same operating system. So you can’t run a, a Windows container on top of a Linux server os like, at the, you can’t mix and match. You’re gonna have to stay in the, in the same vein if you will. I don’t, I don’t know how far you want me to go here.

Josh Lupresto (15:21):
I think that’s a good spot to pause, because I’m actually I’m gonna throw in one other thing and then I’m gonna come right back to that. And we’re gonna nail down really what the track is, what this is about, which is about the three ways. So I wanted you to lay the baseline down for, I think you painted a great picture on the evolution. So pause on that. I’m gonna come right back to that. So hearing that and, and, and seeing some of the conversations that are out there and, and, and with partners we get a lot of partners that listen to this podcast that maybe are in CX or are in network or have done some SD WAN sales and maybe haven’t ventured into cloud infrastructure or didn’t know that that, that, that Telarus could help them or that you were here or, or whatever. And so what do you think that, from your perspective, right? I mean, we get pulled into some great conversations with customers and, and, and rarely is there a time where we can’t help or we don’t find an opportunity. So what do you think maybe, what are some of the reasons of why partners avoid that? Is it the, is it just the knowledge of, of the understanding of some of the things that you laid out or, or what are your thoughts on that?

Chad Mowery (16:27):
Yeah, confidence, I guess is the word that I would use, right? It’s a complicated space. Like I don’t, I don’t understand it all. Nobody understands it all. We all have our own little piece of, of knowledge and expertise and you know, I, I, I, I don’t know. Now I’m getting philosophical here, but that’s important to me. We’ll allow it.

Josh Lupresto (16:47):
We’ll allow it,

Chad Mowery (16:48):
Okay. Alright, good. You know, I think we each have our, our part to play and everybody knows something that the next person doesn’t know, right? So confidence, I, I think is, is really it. And confidence comes from practice. You know, there’s the phrase, fake it till you make it. And of course you can argue that a little too far, maybe. And we wanna be sincere. We don’t wanna be faking, but you gotta try. And I think that’s about asking the questions. And, and of course one of the main reasons that the solutions engineering team, the solutions architect team exists here at Telarus, is to help partners gain that confidence through practice, right? They can start by talking to us, bringing us into conversations. I, I love to, to to, to talk to a partner that says, Hey, I wanna, I wanna sell more cloud, right?

Chad Mowery (17:36):
How do I do it? What questions do I ask? How do we, how do we do this? And I’m, I’m happy to sit down with a partner like that who’s, who’s hungry, if you will, excited wants to learn and put in the effort. Cuz cuz it, it takes some effort and say, Hey, you know, what, what kind of meetings do you got coming up? Let’s talk about what companies they are, let’s talk about how, you know, what questions we might ask. And then let’s, let’s talk again and let’s, let’s, let’s practice together, right? Let’s see how it goes. And, and of course I’m happy to join conversations you know, once an opportunity is found, but I’m, but I’m also happy to talk with a partner in advance to help them kind of get, get, get rolling with some of that, you know, a little more confidence and, and, you know, I get it started, right? Yeah. You, you got, you need repetitions, you gotta practice.

Josh Lupresto (18:19):
Yeah, great points, great points. All right. So, so let’s come back now I want you to, to pin down, I think you, you did a good foundation on how we got from hardware to virtualization, which a lot of people still use to the next evolution, which is Kubernetes. So recap for us, what, what do you think those top three reasons, right? If I’m a partner and I’m listening to this and I’m going, all right, this sounds cool, I can go take this and I can tee up some conversations. What do you think? The top three reasons then to recap kind of what you said are why Kubernetes and why containerization helps down a customer. Because then I want a partner to be able to take those and go, Mr. Customer are, are you experiencing any of these issues or these things that are on your horizon? If they are, then let’s have a conversation about it. So what are your top three?

Chad Mowery (19:05):
So my, my top three, I mean, unfortunately, when you boil this down, it gets a little generic, right? But my, my top three are, are efficiency, portability slash scalability, and then this one’s a little different, I guess process, process or discipline. So any enterprise that wants to make gains in those three areas, I think can benefit from containerization. And it, and it should be at least a topic of conversation. It doesn’t mean just cuz we have a conversation doesn’t mean containerization is immediately a fit or, or it’s probably something that should be on the, the horizon for everyone. You know, if, if they’ve got applications or custom applications, you know, they, they should be aware of containers, what they are and how, you know, what the benefits are and where they might wanna plug them in in the future or, or, or, you know, utilize them.

Chad Mowery (19:55):
But, but yeah, those are, those are my, my top three. And of course, you always gotta go back to the why and explore, you know, the conversation can get pretty deep fairly quickly. As, as far as like, all right, yes, we were, we’re interested in efficiency, so how can containers improve our efficiency? So then, then we can, you know, dive in on that. And yeah, I think that that hinges a lot on, on, you know, I don’t know how many folks listening have heard the, the term modernization of, of applications. Actually, Josh, I think you mentioned earlier in one of the conversation or one of your questions, and I didn’t really elaborate on that much. I, I think we should do that here at some point. I don’t know if now’s the time or if, yeah.

Josh Lupresto (20:29):
We’ll, we’ll I’ll, I’ll come back to modernization. No, it’s a good point. All right. It’s a good point. So, all right, I wanna, I wanted to get into the weeds maybe a little bit here on a deal. So we get to see all kinds of different crazy scenarios from a customer perspective, customers that have a, a very, very advanced environment and maybe need a different kind of help. Maybe it’s more of a skills-based outsourcing to help with a project or people that are, are very early on that maybe haven’t even left that application out of the one piece of hardware, right? And ha haven’t done any of that modernization that you’re talking about. So walk me through maybe just an example, and we can leave customer names and, and partner names and stuff out of it, right? For for, for security purposes. But maybe just walk me through an, an engagement. And, and what I want people to hear out of this is, I think what you’ll find is that, that we, we tend to find more just because we ask a lot of questions. So maybe walk us through an example. What’d you find? What was the problem? What, what were you told the issues were and, and really how did the engagement go?

Chad Mowery (21:35):
Okay, so first I wanna bring back up the why, right? So, so, and, and you know, what a, a lot of thing a lot of a, a term that I hear a lot, a buzzword, if you will, in, in this space, right? Selling technology is business objectives. And, and we talk a lot about reminding ourselves of what are the business objectives. We wanna build solutions that match or meet or solve business objectives. Totally true, but it’s used so much and, and I like to simplify it back again. So why, like, why are we gonna do this? Like, what, why do we want to use containers? It doesn’t make sense. And should we, and it’s always a risk reward or a risk slash cost versus reward equation in, in, in my, in all of life, in my opinion, right? But especially in business, right?

Chad Mowery (22:19):
If you have existing applications and you lift and shift them to the cloud as they are, like, so they’re individual virtual machines, it’s gonna cost more money in, in the vast majority of cases, right? The, there’s usually exceptions to rules, but that’s the rule you need to modernize, which is the term I mentioned earlier, first in order to take advantage of cloud services. And, and that’s a, again, a bit of an area, and I don’t wanna go too far down that road because it’s a bit of a tangent from this, this question, but, so coming back to this question, a particular situation that I have run into and I think I’m, I’m, I’m not gonna mention customer names and I’m gonna mention a name. I think it’s okay cuz it, it happened years ago and it’s, it’s public knowledge, but parlor, right? And let’s leave the, the politics of side, regardless of how you feel or don’t feel or whatever, parlor their business, if you will, right?

Chad Mowery (23:21):
Was dependent on aw w s and aw w s made the decision that Parler was violating their terms of service and shut them down. So they were scrambling. And the, and the reason I, you know, obviously was in the news, but I was actually in a position in the past where I was part of some conversations relating to that whole situation. Parlor was down and they were trying to figure out how to get back up, right? So I, I got to, you know, just touch a little bit of that excitement didn’t, didn’t get to get involved, but saw, kind of saw the opportunity, if you will, right? To mm-hmm. to just you know, pull back a little bit of the, the cover there. But since that happened that is, well, once it’s opened my eyes, but it’s, but I think it’s opened the eyes of other businesses as well.

Chad Mowery (24:05):
And again, we’re gonna go back to risk reward here, right? If you’ve got a business and it’s completely beholden or dependent on one vendor like a w s or hyperscaler, that’s scary, right? There’s various reasons that, that, you know, like your business is, you know, probably never fully in your control, but you’re putting a lot of eggs in one basket, I guess, if you will. And, and if your, if your business is small and you, you’re barely getting off the ground, that’s probably worth the risk. You haven’t built something that’s that big that it’s yet a concern. But at some point, if your business is large enough, you probably don’t wanna depend on one vendor. And so you should look at other ways to deal with this situation. And, and I mentioned a little bit earlier in the conversation that if you lift and shift existing applications, it’s not efficient.

Chad Mowery (24:54):
Well, most of the hyperscalers answer to that is, is serverless, right? So let’s go serverless, which is basically like, we have all this infrastructure in place, and if you just follow our rules of how you run code, you can build an application that works and looks like a website to end users but’s actually only hitting our, I mean, there’s still servers behind there, right? But only hitting our servers, our infrastructure on the backend, and we’ll just charge you for whenever you hit our servers or, or, or pay by the drink, right? Everybody likes that term. Pay by the drink sounds very efficient, right? Actually, I’m gonna, I’m gonna, I’m gonna use that example, right? Pay by the drink. Pay by the drink is cheaper if you don’t drink a lot, right? . So if your applications don’t drink a lot, which is why you modernize an application so that it, it, it drinks sparingly, it practices moderation if you will, it’s great.

Chad Mowery (25:48):
But if you’re, if you have applications that are legacy, which, you know, drink a lot, they need a lot of resources just to run or that exist, a lot of virtual machines, et cetera, you’re better off buying the keg, right? You, you, you go at, you don’t pay by the drink, you, you buy the keg and you throw away a little bit of flat beer, you know, if you have to, right? It’s, it’s, it’s just like, these are principles that I believe apply to all of life, and that’s why it, the lift and shift into the cloud is not the way to go. So if you’ve got the idea, all right, we’re, we’re we are boy, I just lost my, my term. What’s the term for conservative? You’re not drinking too much. I just used it anyway. If you don’t, if you’re efficient and you don’t drink too much and you pay by the drink, it makes sense to go to aws.

Chad Mowery (26:36):
Their, so their answer is serverless lambda is, is is one of their serverless offerings. A lot of people may have heard of that. If you write your application to use Lambda, it’s pretty efficient, right? It’s cost effective. The problem is you can’t move that somewhere else very easily anyway, right? You can’t run it on your own VMware stack. You can’t run it on your own physical servers, you can’t run it in Azure. You can’t run it in G C P without rewriting the application. That’s not efficient, right? Risk of rewriting an application. Huge, right? Cost of writing a reapp an application. Huge. So now I’m gonna go all the way back, I tell long stories parlor, right? They were stock, they were dependent on aws and they figured out how to, how to move, whatever, but other businesses saw that and said, whoa, that’s scary.

Chad Mowery (27:20):
And I, and I worked on an opportunity where a business came to us and they said, look, we can’t have this happen. And so I was working for a provider that, you know, at the time who said, Hey, we can help you build private cloud and we can run something like VMware’s tansu. And that’s not as common in in the industry as, as far as a term probably. I don’t know how many listeners have have heard of that, but tansu then allows you and I, and I think this is where the future is headed, right? Businesses need the ability to be able to container eyes and then move those containers so that they can run on a, on aw w s on Azure, on gcp, on the private cloud. Because again, sometimes a keg is actually more efficient or actually a keg is always more efficient, right?

Chad Mowery (28:07):
You pay less if you, if you knew you were gonna need a keg, it’s, it’s cheaper, right? So, so there’s still a place, even if you’re pretty conservative in terms of your, the drinks consumed a keg is still cheaper, right? If you can, if you’re, if you’re using this, so there’s this place where instead of going all serverless with an invi individual provider like AWS or Azure, AWS’s Lambda and not being able to move you, you kind of split the difference a little bit. It’s not quite as efficient to use a container approach, but it then starts to give you that, that flexibility to, you know, I can move, you know, from one hyperscaler aws, Azure, G C P to another, and you know, and I’ve run into more than one situation. There, there’s also situations where customers are looking to save money. If they get really large with any one provider then they start to feel like, Hey, are, you know, are we getting the best deal? Right? Or are, are we using their services efficiently? Are they helping us the way they should be helping us? And when everything is dependent on that provider, then they, then they feel like they don’t have have options, right? So, so vendor lock-in, right?

Josh Lupresto (29:10):
So, so the reality i in, in this is that from a modernization perspective and from a use case perspective, it’s complicated, right? We, it is, we, we, there, there’s so many dependencies on is containers a good fit? Is it the right fit? Is dedicated hardware fit? How do we autoscale which providers tools and technologies that we use? And I think you brought up, you, you called out a lot of good examples where it, it, I mean, the reality is it just depends. But the, the, the important part in this to kind of bring back the example that you mentioned was that look, every while everybody struggles with a lot of the same things from a scalability, cost, business, staffing perspective sometimes containers are a fit, and, and, and sometimes they aren’t. So I think you laid out some good examples where, you know, it, it just depends.

Josh Lupresto (29:56):
And so I think that’s important. I wanna, I want to call back to, to one final thing here as we, as we wrap this up. One final one or two quick thoughts. If I’m a partner now, and I’m listening to some of the things that you just mentioned of how complex some of this journey is, or who it’s a fit for, who it’s not a fit for, what some of those business drivers are, and you’re, you’re, you’re giving me questions to ask, what are one or two of those questions that I then go back to my customers, my prospects with to, to see if this is a good fit to drum up a conversation about cloud and modernization?

Chad Mowery (30:29):
Yeah. So first lemme say, Josh, there’s so many more things I’d love to share, but I I know we’re, we’re, we’re, we’re running short on time. So as far as questions to a, I mean, the, the first question is, okay, does the business slash customer, do they have applications, right? If they’re running applications, then containerizations should be at least something they’re aware of and have considered. And, and you can bring that as a partner to the table. And even if you don’t know anything about containers, I, I, I’m here at Telarus, I would love to have a conversation with you and your, your customer about it and, and help explore whether it makes sense. And again, like I said, it’s gonna be, it’s gonna come down to a risk slash reward, but I can help navigate like, okay, here’s the reasons you would want to use it.

Chad Mowery (31:11):
And oh, you know, tell me Mr. Customer what your situation is. And you know, then I can sort of help lay out some pros and cons of, of what makes sense. So first question, do they have applications? And if they do, containerizations should be at least a question. Beyond that, if there’s a custom application, especially that, that, that, that ups the priority, if you will. And then last are, are they building new applications or, or, or applications for the lifeblood of their business or, or applications they’ve written? Then really, man, if they’re not, if they’re not looking at containers and understanding where they fit, then I, I really think that that’s, that’s super important, right? They need to, they need to, they need to look at that.

Josh Lupresto (31:52):
Okay. Final thoughts here as we look forward to the future. So this is a fast evolving space, right? We’re talking, you know, halfway through 2023, moving into 2024 we’ve mentioned infrastructure, we mentioned containers, the next evolution of serverless where it’s infrastructure as code. You look out a year, a year plus. Do we need to, to do anything different other than kind of the talk tracks and then discussions and, and, and the conversations that we’ve mentioned so far, anything different that you see coming down the, the pipe that’s gonna change things

Chad Mowery (32:29):
Every day is a winding road. Change is, change is, is is happening. It’s gonna continue to happen. I don’t know exactly what’s gonna happen in the future. I mean, I, I think that we’re gonna continue to see, like we’ve seen with what I call the hyperscalers aws, Azure, G C P, with, with those coming into prominence, the, the thought track was it’s cheaper in the cloud. I think that people are starting to realize, okay, that’s not necessarily the case, right? And, and that goes back to my pay by the drink/keg example, I think, right?

Chad Mowery (33:06):
I think the next iteration on that conversation is, okay, we, we, we know that it’s not cheaper, we shouldn’t lift and shift, but we’re building new applications. How do we build them and how do we, how do we solve this? And how does the cloud fit? And so I think people are gonna continue to, to be more intelligent about how they utilize cloud and containerizations slash vendor lock-ins slash serverless. All of these technologies and concepts come into play and need to be part of the conversation. And, and I, we’re gonna, we’re gonna continue to, to see more of that. You know, the uptake is, it’s gonna take time, right? Just like cloud is cheaper. It took a while for that myth, if you will, to be dispelled. And you know, cuz it’s not in all cases, there, there is a place, but, but not in all cases the same thing I think is gonna be true of, of containerization and serverless and some of those things, right? Where we gotta see where each piece fits and, and enterprises are gonna continue to learn as they go and, and they see the need to learn and as they see more need to learn, that I think opens up the, the opportunity for the partners to like it, the evolution sometimes seems slow, but man, the opportunity is, is really, really vast for partners. Yeah.

Josh Lupresto (34:16):
Great, great wrap right there. All right. Mr. Chad Mowery, cloud solution architect for Telarus. Chad, thanks so much for coming on man, and sharing sharing some stuff about containers with us.

Chad Mowery (34:26):
Thanks for the invite, Josh. Appreciate it. Real pleasure.

Josh Lupresto (34:29):
All right, everybody that wraps us up. I’m your host, Josh Lupresto, SVP of sales engineering. And if you’ve got any feedback as this podcast grows, we would love to hear it. Please share that with us. Until next time.