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This week we dive into Telecom Expense Management (TEM), with special guest Jason Kaufman, Sales Engineer, Southeast of Telarus.

Automated Transcript:

Josh Lupresto (00:02):

Welcome to the podcast that is designed to fuel your success in selling technology solutions. I’m your host, Josh Lupresto, SVP of Sales Engineering at Telarus, and this is Next Level Biztech.

Josh Lupresto (00:30):

Hey everybody, welcome back. I’m your host, Josh Lupresto, SVP of Sales Engineering for Telarus. And this is the Next Level Biztech podcast. So today we are actually wrapping up our first part of the track for the end of season one. We’re back, we’re talking about telecom, we’re talking about expense management, and we have the amazing Jason Kaufman, who is our southeast sales engineer at Telarus, but also part-time moonlighting as mobility, solution architect, IoT, all that good stuff. But before we let him introduce himself again today’s a special episode because this is our first time having a return guest. So Kaufman, welcome back my man.

Jason Kaufman (01:10):

Thanks Josh. You know what they say? Fool me once. Shame on you, fool me twice. You get the gist, but I really appreciate you having me back on here. Yeah,

Josh Lupresto (01:17):

Yeah. Truth is like, I forgot you were on. And so, you know, when we realize you were on a second time, we just thought, Oh, let’s just go with it. <Laugh>. No kidding. So let’s you know, I, I wanna talk backstory again, right? Let, let’s refresh everybody. Tell me about, you know, have, have you always had an interest in this? Have you always gotten to the telecom side, expense management, mobility, wireless, you know, where, where did things start for you and kind of how did you get to this spot?

Jason Kaufman (01:43):

Yeah so my previous role, you know, skip, skip a few different you know, positions, but I ended up being, I run the, ran the operations for a desktop as a service little micro organization to where we were the first one to do like UCaaS within a vdi. And so running the operations, my whole goal was trying to save money on the bottom line, you know, make, you know, robotics, process automation, you know, trying to save time, money anywhere we could so we could scale without having to hire, you know, more, more people unless it was absolutely needed. So, you know, the effective turn of running skinny, some I’ve never done in my life. But but yeah, so when I, when I got here and started with Telarus, you know, one of the things that came up, you know, somebody started asking about expense management.

Jason Kaufman (02:28):

So I started looking into it, you know, prior to my tenure here. But it was something I took a real interest in because it did exactly that. It allows somebody to run way more efficient. It puts everything in a single pan of glass, you know, all your contracts, you know, proactive management. And then when I started digging into it more and started actually getting some high level customers that really needed it, I, you know, thought, you know, I really need to learn this pretty quickly because it’s coming down the pipe quite a bit, You know, with the rising gas prices, all the expenses rising, the great resignation causing, you know, salaries to go through the roof. People, companies are trying to find a way to save money anyway they could. So the technology spin was one of it. And one thing that we specialize really well is looking at what you’re, what you have now, and trying to find ways to give you, like, for like to save money or give you more features and benefits for the same amount money.

Jason Kaufman (03:15):

But if a custom, if a company is really like, Hey, we need to save money here and need a way to, you know, optimize everything that we have from a contract perspective, that’s something I took a heavy interest in because that’s streamlining process. So I just took a heavy interest in it. And then the more I dug into it, the more I learned all the capabilities Tim has to offer and how it, you know, evolved over the years, rather than just a little spreadsheet that where you have all your contracts and stuff, but something that actually does some proactive money saving, and then all the stuff that gets bundled into, into it with like managed mobility services and stuff. But yeah, it was just a, you know, it was just a, you know, a pav roadway of interest and then just getting flooded with requests to learn more about it. And then just staying up night, staying up late at night. Cause I couldn’t sleep until I learned Tim

Josh Lupresto (04:02):

<Laugh>. So, So you brought up, you brought up a good point. Let’s talk about the evolution of Tim, because I, I think, you know, Tim, I think people make a preconceived notion of what Tim is because it’s what, what Tim used to be and, and you know, the old, the old days of, of mobility and Tim and things like that was, Hey, you know, let me, let me look at your bills and if I can save you some money, whatever I save you, you just pay me 50% on you, keep the other 50% and hopefully you, you buy something from me in the future, right? But I think to your point, there’s been such an evolution of Tim and it, it was almost before a lot of the crazy economic times that we have now, right? But I, but I think to your point, it feels like the Tim folks had to figure out what else can we offer?

Josh Lupresto (04:47):

What, how do we, how do we make our pitch a little sexier and how do we, how do we productize that? So maybe let’s, let’s start this off with what, what was Tim and what did an interface of, or what did the software of Tim really do and look like? And then let’s build that up as to kind of what some of our Tim players have right now, You know, and, and we’ll have we’ll have Brightfin on. They’re gonna talk about one of their, you know, their, their play and their version and, and, and their opinion of, of where they fit in the market. But maybe give us a little history lesson on kind of where Tim was and, and where Tim’s at.

Jason Kaufman (05:24):

Ok. Yeah. When, when Tim really started, it was just more of like an analytics and single like dashboard BI tool to where you’re loading all these contracts and you’re able to see, you know, term dates, you’re able to, you know, kind of effectively look at from different point of views. You know, you find your baseline you know, value point, which is generally an employee idd where you’re tracking everything down and you have locations, you have cost centers and all that stuff. And people need to be able to find reports based on those specific classifications that are important to the business. Whether you’re sending everything to accounts payable, you know, the accounting team, you know, you’re looking, looking at something from an HR perspective, you need to get those data points. So being able to pull all that stuff into a single area and, you know, look at multiple, multiple different contracts at one specific time, that’s what made it so valuable.

Jason Kaufman (06:10):

Rather than having somebody manually go through each contract, find that data point, you know, probably have to call up the carrier and see when your contract ends if you don’t know it, or log into a bunch of different portals. But having that piece all right there, you know, was very valuable. So I, that’s where everything really started. But then, you know, when you starting to get to the sexiness, you were talking about bright, thin and some of the other providers in our portfolio, a couple things they do as well on top of what Tim used to be is, you know focusing on how much money can you save as well instead of just making things operationally efficient. And the big piece of that is mobility spend. So one thing that, you know, Bryon does very well, and they’re very quick at, is monitoring data pools.

Jason Kaufman (06:50):

So let’s say, you know, you and I have, you know, combined, you know, 10 gig plan, we split at 50/50, so five and five, let’s say some month, you know, I’m gonna be going over and some month, you know, you’re gonna be going under or going over that plan automatically goes in and changes to what it needs to be in order to minimize overages or save the company money, hopefully. And that’s all done on the back end, you know, that has that machine learning capability where somebody doesn’t have to physically watch it all the time or come in and do a monthly, a weekly or quarterly type audit. It’s something that’s automatically done. One of the terms always like using is automatically just cause it’s already there and you don’t have to worry about it. So what they’re seeing is now with that type of, you know, machine learning capabilities, companies are saving close to 20% at least on their mobility spend alone.

Jason Kaufman (07:39):

And then, you know, if you’re going past, you know, the TEM, you know, the mobility expense management piece of it and getting into telecom or technology expense management, then you’re pulling in other factors. Even your cloud spend, your, you know, your connectivity piece, UCaaS software as a service, everything that you can pull into there and all manage it from a single pain, you know, it’s the flexibility that you get from something like that is, is really cool. And, and the expansion of it is just gonna keep, grow, growing and growing. One piece of it that I really think is a big, is a big one as well that came down is it staff. Were always a central point of contact for let’s say somebody needed something, you know, a circuit or a mobile phone or something like that. Now you have all those ordering platforms through the Tim, it’s not just taking everything you have existing, but it’s allowing you to procure new, but it’s o but it’s an overlay.

Jason Kaufman (08:29):

So it’s not going out and creating another account. It’s keeping your existing accounts and then, you know, sourcing it through there. But just making it in a much easier fashion. And from a mobility perspective, instead of having a ticket created for it to where an IT resource now that’s already burdened with a bunch of other stuff on their plate has to go out and find out what the person needs, what they’re capable of getting from a supervisor, ordering it, getting it staged, and KIT now completely set up and handed to them. Now all that stuff’s completely automated through the system. You know, having that portal to where there’s administrator access, but then there’s also user access that defines what this user’s capable of getting depending on their job title. Like me, I’d probably get a flip phone. You probably get the next, next gen iPhone out there and, and just goes on class title.

Jason Kaufman (09:16):

And you can define that everything’s customizable, what we have access to see. So, you know, once you, once you click and order your phone, the user has this and it’s automatically integrated into the HR platform. So as soon as they’re created in their, IT creates ’em in, in this area from a directory. They go in, they order their phone, they pick what case they want, they, you know, their data planning pools already there, and then they just select where they want it to ship, and then the company stage kits it, drop ship, dropships it from there, if I say ship correctly, and then it goes automatically to the employee without anybody having to lift a finger. So now we’re talking about operationally from like an accounting perspective or you know, an IT staff, now we’re talking about operation through all the way to new employee onboarding. So you’re, you’re effectively just extending the capabilities of a TEM system. So it goes much more above and beyond of just contract, you know, visibility and analytics.

Josh Lupresto (10:08):

Yeah. Good, good story on the evolution. And there are times where I do miss the flip phone, I’m not gonna lie. <Laugh> you know, you you, you paint a good story on the evolution, kind of where we were at and before, and then really where we’re at now. And, and I think it does paint, it opens up the door for really where we’re going. And we’ll, I think we’ll wrap up at the end of this. We’ll come back a little more to that and talk about your opinion on where, where we think it’s going. But I think, you know, the, the, the thought there that the partners always ask me is, Okay, like, you know, who, who’s a good target for this? Who’s a good fit for this? Who needs this? And you know, historically, Tim, I, I think a lot of it for us, at least from a supplier’s perspective, started out, well, it was wireless based to Tim, and there was also then a preconceived notion that we only had wireless temp or we only had wireline te, you know, And, and now to your point, all of these things are there.

Josh Lupresto (11:04):

All of the options are there, but what’s a question for you that, that I think our partners would like to know how many full-time employees, how many FTE would you say when a company gets to this point? Either, you know, however you wanna classify it from a handset account or from an employee count, When does it start to warrant, hey, they’re either gonna hire or need to hire a full-time person, or they should look at having this kind of outsource manage, What, what are you seeing? That’s a good number to focus around employee size.

Jason Kaufman (11:38):

Mm-Hmm. Right around the, the hundred employee area just because that’s generally around the minimum that, you know, a lot of our providers are you know, set at, So it goes on based on the amount of spend and then pretty much averages out to about a hundred employees, hits that spend number, whether it’s, you know, 20 to 25 k, you know, monthly spend for your mobility services for the providers like brighten for instance, that, you know, can do connectivity and cloud and stuff like that. You pull all that together and hit that minimum. But I think a hundred employees is right there. Cause that’s where you start to get complicated. You know, you start looking at multiple providers just cause, you know, Verizon hotspots are different to where at and t are, there’s a lot of overlap, but if you look at the maps on their website, you can see Verizon, at and t and t-Mobile all have differences, especially when it comes to now the big latest and greatest 5G rollout, right? And that’s what everybody wants, you know, low latency, high speed stuff. So you’re finding yourself with multiple vendors, which is multiple contracts. Somebody may order something that doesn’t know an existing account, so there’s another contract and it’s just, it, it centralizes the communication flow when you’re getting to the valuable parts of the team or of the Tim. So, you know, you’re, you’re unifying all your contracts, You want all your dating your data pools, not dating pools into one. That’s

Josh Lupresto (12:52):

A different podcast.

Jason Kaufman (12:53):

Yeah, that’s a different, that’s next week. That’s season two episode one. But, but yeah, so you’re, you’re really just simplifying something for, for that that amount of employees. Everything lower than that, really, I, from what I’ve seen, employees are kind of, you know, bring your own device, right? You know, if the company is supplying their own, you know, it’s to a subset of employees is not to everybody. And then they generally have IT staff that’s not overwhelmed at that point. But you know, what we’re, you know, what we’re also seeing on the other hand is there really is a market for below that. And, you know, it would be worth the investment to come into the s and b market to where some, even if it’s completely automated, to where there’s no human aspect behind it, but something where somebody can go in, you know, log into a portal, log into their account, link them together through api, and then be able to order through there, you know, something where the provider doesn’t need to really touch it, but they still get the full aspects of the Tim, the user experience, the integrations in the accounting platforms you know, robotics process automation is a big topic right now.

Jason Kaufman (13:56):

So I think the, the SMB market is gonna be picking up heavily on that, especially now with cybersecurity purposes. You know, controlling phones in house is now pretty much a cybersecurity mandatory thing because of all the MDM requirements and everything else. You have more control rather than somebody just access company data freely wherever they want to. You need to have more conditional access type stuff, right? So I think we’re gonna start seeing that stuff get honed in more and more provided phones which require more temp systems and managed mobility services, because finding somebody that’s able to do that in a cost effective manner just isn’t really feasible anymore. Yeah.

Josh Lupresto (14:32):

It, it doesn’t scale. I think that’s, that’s the thing that we’re, that we’re seeing. I mean, it’s been a trend. Certainly the last good chunk of episodes on this and, and as we’re in the middle of all these deals is, I just need help because I don’t have the people to do it. And whether that’s a specific technical facet, you know, something deep insecurity or something deep in cloud at Kubernetes or whatever, these very niche tech talents are 10 times harder than they were to find three months ago, six months ago, two years ago. So I don’t see that letting up across the board, but I, the other trend of that I think that we have to mention is that, you know, it’s an efficiency conversation right now, right? We’re, you know, we see the layoffs and things like that across the industry with, with different, different companies.

Josh Lupresto (15:15):

And so I think everybody right now has been looking at the books going, Are we, are we really optimized? Right? Are we, are we doing the right thing? Are we spending the money in the right places? Because we still wanna grow, we still wanna do these things, but let’s, let’s really double look at how and where and what we’re spending it. And I think to, to the point Tim opens up that conversation, But to me, I’d love to hear your, your opinion on this. I, I think Tim, Tim is almost a door opener. I mean, it’s a problem solver, certainly if the immediate problem comes up. And I do wanna go into some questions that, that you, you wanna give partners to ask. But are you, are you seeing Tim just solve a problem, an immediate problem based on people asking a couple questions and getting in the, into the deal? Or are you seeing that uncover or free up funds to open to kind of do other things? Just curious what you’re seeing there.

Jason Kaufman (16:07):

Yeah, no great question. And, and it’s generally a lead for, you know, you get to that budget conversation, it’s, Oh, we don’t really have the budget right now. We’ve had, we already maxed out our budget six months into the year because of unforeseen events. It, it goes into that conversation, Okay, well, let’s see how we can save you money. You know, there’s a few different line that we have. You know, Tim is a big one, you know, taking your existing stuff and is bolting something on top that you’re paying minimums for, and then saving a lot more money on opening up 15% of your mobility budget with actually adding extra features on there is a big value problem. You know, there’s other things that we have, you know, with Crown castles you know, rooftop access, you know, selling that to some, to somebody and having carriers be able to buy it and, you know, lease it at least.

Jason Kaufman (16:49):

And then now with the ev charging stations to where people can get digital signage and actually revenue, you know, that’s actually hit more of the top line rather than bottom line. But we’re starting to see more and more things that open up budget to allow conversations into other aspects like, you know, big one being cybersecurity. Hey, we know we need to do something right now. We don’t have the funds to do it, but we know we have a lot of openings for threat actors. Okay, let’s see what we can do to save you money first. And then we’ll get back to that conversation about everything else. You know, piecing that strategic actual, you know, strategic advisor conversation rather than a catalog of transactions that’s where we’re seeing a ton of value here. And from, from a temp perspective, you’re, you know, you’re saving the money as well from a software application, but then you’re also saving operationally to where they can, you know, effectively use employees for other aspects of the business, right?

Jason Kaufman (17:38):

It’s, it’s opening up the doors to many other conversations from a, not just an operational thing, but, you know, saving money, opening up budgets is really where I’ve been using it. And it’s just been scaling past that to where now we’re seeing a lot of people come in asking for it because of m and a, you know, they’re getting a bunch of contracts they didn’t know existed, so they need a place to centrally load it and see, you know, what their options are. And it’s really simple to do. Cause it, you know, effectively through e bonding, you know, which most of these companies have where you’re just, you know, using an API to log to the carrier, you know, Verizon, at and t t-mobile, you can order through that. You can pull all the contracts through there. You don’t need to go in and search for anything. It makes things really easy for somebody to essentially manage. And it makes that conversation, Hey, we’re gonna go buy this company. Okay, that’s no problem. We’ll just log in and, you know, pull in all their stuff and we’re good to go. And it just allows you to scale a lot quicker.

Josh Lupresto (18:28):

Let’s talk about deals and trends. I I would like maybe just really quick, you know, in, in 30 seconds, right? If I’m a partner and I have an opportunity to pitch a customer, maybe I I, I’m, I’m selling contact center, maybe I’m selling cloud, maybe I’m selling some adjacent technology, and I, I realize that I’m not talking to the customer and they probably have a lot of rampant spend in some of these areas. What’s one, two, just what’s your favorite couple questions that you’ve seen partners have success with? Just start that and open up that door and bring that conversation back to you to help

Jason Kaufman (18:59):

Just, you know, someone once are, Hey, you know, what are you, you know, what’s your monthly spend on your mobility? Is that something that you know, you feel like you have control over? Do you know where all your contracts are? Do you know, you know, if you’re month to month to anybody, have you ever priced compared to see what it looks like? Or if you don’t wanna move at all, do you know it’s really simple for somebody to actually save you money with everything that you have now? You know, the mobility spends a big one. How many devices just cause that’s kind of qualifying if they’re actually capable of having a, a solution. But the other one is, you know, if you have ever, you know, looked at opening up your budget, what are some of the areas that you thought that you could open up the budget with?

Jason Kaufman (19:34):

Like where you could save money off, off the bottom line? And nobody ever says mobility. And Tim, you know, the people that have maybe done some Google searching and kind of seen some of the stuff, you know, how do I save money? May have known a little bit about it, but then when you get on the conversational, explain all the different aspects to where they could, you know, you know, have that fluid conversation of you could save money here, here, here, here. But really it just comes down to, you know, all the different ways that you could save money from a strategic advisor.

Josh Lupresto (20:02):

Good. I wanna, let’s take maybe what, what you, you learned off of one of those conversations and, and let’s say the partner brought you back an opportunity. So I wanna talk into the weeds about a deal. So paint the picture for me. Gimme a situation where a deal came to you. What did it look like? What were you told? And then ultimately, you know, as you got into it with the customer and the discussion, what was it, what was the problem? And then really how did we solve what, you know, what kind of solution did we sell and what did it do?

Jason Kaufman (20:31):

Okay. Yeah. So just talk, one of the, one of the recent ones, construction’s actually been really big lately because they have a lot of, you know, cradle points out there with data pools. Everybody has their, their company provided cell phones construction, just been providing cell phones since the beginning of time. It seems like they never had a really a BYOD policy because, you know, the robustness needed, everything breaks. It was just, it would just be a headache and nightmare to, you know, reimburse somebody and tell ’em, Oh yeah, that’s done on the job site, Go buy a new phone. So everything was really done in house. And so coming, coming to us, you know, some of ’em are going through m and a right now, buying other companies, you know, what we’re seeing actually in the technology space as well.

Jason Kaufman (21:10):

And they’re like, Hey, we’re paying overages like crazy and have data pools that are going to where we need to really manage this a lot better. What we’ve really done is, you know, we’ve, we’ve hired a consultant to come in and we actually hired more people to look at it, but we found out that that really does scale very well because they have limited knowledge. And this is not just a cookie cutter type, you know, example. This is, this is a, a real example that I’ve had within the last couple weeks. So there, you know, the first thing we told ’em is, Hey, you know, you know, the same conversation we’ve had previously, How many devices do you have? Which carriers are you using? And it’s like, well, we use Verizon and the carrier and the company we just purchased uses at and t and T-Mobile, and they have a few Verizon accounts. So I was like, Oh, great, this is perfect. What are you doing to manage all that at one time? And they said, Well, we have a spreadsheet and

Josh Lupresto (21:59):

Yes, this spreadsheet, that’s a buyer’ss question. I love it. Yes,

Jason Kaufman (22:03):

Yes. So I was like, Okay, perfect. You know, this is blinding up perfectly with what we’re seeing in the market today, and this is a problem that we can easily solve. How would you like to be able to solve this problem and save money at the same time? And then that’s when you see like light bulbs just come on. You’re like, Wow, I can, you can solve my problems and save me money. And then they start getting way more engaged in any conversation, and you can see how quick somebody turns around the data points that you need to move further when they know they’re gonna be looking like superheroes on the back end. So we really left that conversation as just throwing a couple, you know, providers out there, you know, whether it’s a brightfin, Vmox, Wireless watchdogs, Velero, dsl, but it’s coming down to the spin.

Jason Kaufman (22:39):

So when that spin hits a certain point, you can start talking about those next providers. So, I mean, they had 2200 devices total out of all of ’em, so easily hit any minimum that we were, that we were looking at, but they didn’t have anything in place. So what you’re looking at from an opportunity perspective for everybody out there listening in, you know, there’s plenty of people that don’t know what they have, what they need, but it gives you enough spend to where you have a lot of flexibility on the solutions that you can provide. So, so what we do is tell ’em, you know, we need the three months of bills we need, you know, your asset list. And then from there, it’s just handing that off to the providers and saying, Hey, you know, what all the stuff do you wanna pull in?

Jason Kaufman (23:15):

You know, we just talk about mobility here, but is there other people you wanna pull into a conversation? Do you have an infrastructure person that they wanna look at cloud spin? Are you also in charge of your wire line? Do you have SaaS space applications like Microsoft, Salesforce, Oracle, any, anything that you’re using in house that you wanna look at your spend there and also the users and see if they’re, they’re actually using that software. There’s a lot of stuff that you can get visibility on from a SaaS based tip. So it was, you know, it takes that conversation from one piece of it and then expands it out. How far do you wanna take this into your core business? And once you get everything in there, then it’s kind of hard to, you know, say, you know, this is not valuable to me anymore.

Jason Kaufman (23:53):

But it, it was, it’s generally not a very long conversation because, you know, you have that one point where you’re like, Hey, you make things way easier on you and save you money. Okay, you got interest, you, we need a couple data points. And that’s something that’s generally always a follow up item. And then from there, it’s, Hey, how many different areas do you want to, you know, expense manage? And then that layers it down on which providers are you, you want, wanna have access to. Some of ’em are manage mobility expense management only. Some are wire line and mobility only, and then pulling in the cloud spends another one. Utilities is big right now. And then this asset based applications were pretty limited there too. So, I mean, it’s, it’s really, you know, where the conversation leads from there, but it’s just seeing all the stuff that they wanna pull in, what their spend is, how many devices, and then what, you know, going into the manage mobility services piece of it, which all these temp companies do, what all do you want to outsource? Do you have a mobile help desk? The staging and kidding piece of it? Do you want somebody to do that for you? There’s, there’s many different pieces to where you’re still saving money. The more services that you’re ting on

Josh Lupresto (24:56):

Love, it seems too good to be true, but it’s not awesome stuff. So as we kind of get to the end here, you know, we, we, you painted the picture, I think really well of where this, where Tim started, how Tim got a little sex here over time as it started to add all these other tools and all these other visibilities and, you know, providers coming in, sitting on the back of service now, you know, and if a customer had service now, it was just very symbiotic. And so there’s lots of little things like that. So your thoughts, Jason, as we kind of wrap this up of what’s next for, for this, this practice, right? Does, where does the TEM tool sets go from here? Where do the providers go from here? What do the customer needs go from here? Just, you know, your thoughts as you look out.

Jason Kaufman (25:41):

I think we’re gonna see more data points getting pulled in. So all the, all the, you know, companies that are on the, you know, the high end leader magic quadrant, you know, they, they have, you know, more capabilities from all the different verticals that they can pull in. Some you pull in real estate, I mean, so you’re, you’re getting all these different bills and contracts all in the one symbolized platform. So I think we’re gonna see more providers scale out and pull in more stuff. We still have our hyperfocused providers that are just rock stars at what they do. So I think they’ll expand more on the savings capabilities and negotiation with the contracts. The automatic savings that you get just by going with them, you know, the proactive data pool management probably get quicker, you know, just to show more value on what they do specifically.

Jason Kaufman (26:22):

But I think we’re also gonna see the expansion into the smaller SMB space, You know, no matter how many employees you have, even if you have a, you know, less than 10, you know, the micro SMB area, you can still log into a portal, centralize all your contracts into a single area, and effectively have a ton of benefits that normally the mid-market enterprise companies already have. That’s kind of seeing where we’re market the market’s going anyways from other verticals. You know, Tim’s just following behind. I think now we’re already starting to get part providers in the portfolio that bo that are gonna be focusing on the smb, giving them something that, you know, they can just log into and self-serve. So there’s no impact on the provider really. It’s just pulling all the stuff in and let you know, let somebody use the system and then they can subscribe to other stuff that they truly want to, but it’s not as included as a mid-market enterprise type conversation. So I think there’s a couple things. We’re gonna see more data points, more verticals, and you know, the more, you know, cybersecurity will probably get pulled into it now that’s, you know, widely known in the industry. And then, you know, the going down to the, the smaller companies, you know, pretty much letting everybody have, you know, a piece of the pie.

Josh Lupresto (27:26):

Good stuff. Hey, paints a good picture. I think where it’s at where it came from and where it’s going. So Mr. Kaufman, that that wraps us up for today, my man.

Jason Kaufman (27:36):

Yeah, Josh, thanks for having me. I look forward to discussing on season two episode one. Nothing I know about, which is the dated pools, so I’m sure I’ll be back for number three soon.

Josh Lupresto (27:45):

Awesome. All right, everybody that wraps us up for today. I am your host, Josh Lupresto, SVP of sales engineering at Telarus. We’ve had on Jason Kaufman, Southeast Sales Engineer Mobility, IoT subject Matter expert. And, and that wraps us up for today, kicking off the final episode track in season one, telecom and expense management. Until next time. Thanks everybody.